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Post by godless on Feb 2, 2010 22:37:40 GMT -5
I picked up my copy(still waiting on the Vigil cover B to come...) but have barely read it yet because I was in the hospital again. I DID do my usual perusal of the pages to check out the art before I sat down to read any of the story. For the most part it was good but in many panels, even the really good panels(the ones we all thought looked great in the B&W previews) there are some bothersome little details I don't like...a hand that is too small here or an arm that looks to stunted(like a dwarf) or a muscle flexing that just doesn't look quite right(like a bicep that is turned too much or not enough etc.).
Could just be me being nitpicky and the artwork in this issue WAS a good deal better than the artwork in #1(but not better than books 3 & 4) and also much better than the Moon Maid art. I also agree with Jainitai that the colors look more vibrant here.
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Stu
Jr Slasher
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Post by Stu on Feb 14, 2010 9:05:05 GMT -5
I just read all four of these together and having read all the Frazetta comics I think this is by far my favorite. Some of Vigil's best looking color art. I didn't think that I would enjoy the non sequentual art issues much but I was suprised how much I enjoyed the story. Great story, great art and great coloring. Nice job boys! I am definitely getting the hard cover of this.
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Post by godless on Feb 14, 2010 18:30:07 GMT -5
Yeah I already pre-ordered the HC. The first issue of the series still irks me...Tim's art came off as rushed and/or careless at times. A lot like the "Zero Tolerance" art did. Action shots that did not measure up to the Faust or even Grips stuff, questionable anatomy/physiology, etc. But the 2-4 issues were pretty good overall.
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Stu
Jr Slasher
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Post by Stu on Feb 17, 2010 12:22:58 GMT -5
I was thinking of Zero Tolerance and badger myseld after the first issue but after reading it again I think it's a definite improvment. The art in two and three was great and four was pretty damn good. He only saves his best work for Rebel but I was pleasantly surprised with this. I REALLY liked the splash page of D.D and the top half page that showed the bridge. Loved the ending as well with her all silhouetted.
I wonder what's going to be in the extra 80 or so extra pages of the H.C?
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Post by godless on Feb 17, 2010 19:32:04 GMT -5
Yeah I think I mostly agree with you. But I have been re-reading all of his "Frazetta-verse" stuff a bit and there are an awful lot of anatomically weird things going on in various panels. Stuff like that Centaur-dude in "Moon Maid" holding his spear-weapon up and outward but his bicep pointing down and away as if he were holding the spear in the opposite direction.
I did not even realize Tim drew that "Neanderthals" book until I read through the whole "Fantastic Worlds..." vol 2 HC. That was pretty decent, especially considering the way they put that story together(taking various separate drawings Tim did and then re-re-re-arranging them into the panels they thought they needed).
I can't wait for the Dark Kingdom HC to get here myself. I hope they have put some really cool stuff in that was not already seen in the 4-issue series.
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Post by jainitai on Feb 17, 2010 21:28:58 GMT -5
I think you guys need to be able to draw your selves before you start criticizing other artist's work for its anatomical correctness.
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killju
Slasher
SONOF6
Posts: 344
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Post by killju on Feb 17, 2010 22:10:31 GMT -5
ok i agree!theres a shit load of people that say shit about art but have never tried for fear of someones criticizim!tims art is amazing,i personaly loved grips!faust is a great book to,and i think gothic nights was his best!but the issue 11 of faust he did was really amazing for me,if it grabs me then im in!i really dont care about what looks good or bad,or whos arm is bigger then the other.if the book flows then its good for me.dark kingdom 4 was what i was waiting for,i loved his death dealer and i couldnt help but wonder MARVEL ZOMBIES by tim vigil!ild buy a truck load.people have said some harsh shit to me during my BONEYARD PRESS years even hart told me my inks were to thick!but i took it and grew,a good friend on the boards here gave me alot of pointers,he was right and im a better artist for it!but to criticize MR. VIGIL is like telling the pope he dont know shit about realigon.you just dont!not unless youve dont it as well!
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Post by godless on Feb 18, 2010 18:55:55 GMT -5
I think you guys need to be able to draw your selves before you start criticizing other artist's work for its anatomical correctness. I DID draw...from when I was like 2 or 3 years old until my early to mid 30s. I have done CD/album covers, comic strips in local rags and countless fliers for various bands throughout WA. state. I was asked by a doctor to illustrate his book that was largely about anatomy(I turned him down because I thought he could find better and I knew I was too lazy to finish such an endeavor). I have drawn tattoo designs that people have gotten placed upon their flesh, t-shits, etc. Be careful what you assume kiddo. Also, you guys need to separate criticism of specific panels where I suspect even Tim would tell you wasn't his best work) from slamming an artist's work overall. There is no bigger fan of Tim Vigil than me. I was there in 1986 for Grips and DragonQuest and I was there every week of 1988 asking my LCS owner if Faust was in yet. I have shelled out more money on Tim's work than most people spend on CARS!
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Post by jainitai on Feb 19, 2010 11:16:36 GMT -5
Well just because you've drawn since you were 2 and have drawn stuff for other people doesn't necessarily mean you draw well. And I'm not trying to bash you or start a fight, I'm just saying what's the point of pointing out little flaws in anatomical correctness or perspective in Tim's work if you yourself couldn't even draw it if you tried?
And I'll be the first to admit that I'm also very visually critical when it comes to artwork and I've even noted stuff about Tim's work right here on the message boards. It's mostly to do with the same things you've noticed, like rushed panels, missing detail or some funky anatomy.
But I guess I'm personally getting to a point of "it is what it is" and what's the point of nitpicking so much? The fact is that Tim could blow either of us out of the water with his drawing skills. When you're on a deadline sometimes a bicep might end up looking a little wonky. And if Tim is already aware of where he rushed and where he may have left out some detail, then what's the point of us pointing it out?
Like I said, I guess I'm just getting to a point of realizing that it's pointless to over analyze Tim's artwork. It really just is what it is. But who knows, maybe Tim enjoys the critiques? It's definitely a fine line between constructive criticism and just criticizing.
PS - It's also interesting to note our propensities towards realism and realistic looking artwork. We have to remember this is a comic book medium where exaggeration is often the basis of the artwork. But it's an interesting phenomenon that as humans we tend to critique art based on its resemblance to "reality" more than any other of its salient qualities.
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killju
Slasher
SONOF6
Posts: 344
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Post by killju on Feb 19, 2010 20:42:46 GMT -5
AMEN BROTHER!
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Post by godless on Feb 20, 2010 0:31:32 GMT -5
Fuck it...post deleted. It's not worth it and I want to avoid this sort of confrontational crap with members here. I would rather just ignore you Jainitai and see how far you push this before you realize exactly what you stepped in.
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Post by jainitai on Feb 20, 2010 9:52:26 GMT -5
I would rather just ignore you Jainitai and see how far you push this before you realize exactly what you stepped in. Huh...?
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killju
Slasher
SONOF6
Posts: 344
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Post by killju on Feb 21, 2010 17:37:33 GMT -5
man!!!u guys need to relax its just art.i know some people have ideas about who does what,but in the end we are all artist who are on this thing because of our fasination with mr. vigil artwork!thats it!enjoy the art,dont rip it apart!later
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Post by godless on Feb 21, 2010 20:01:07 GMT -5
man!!!u guys need to relax its just art.i know some people have ideas about who does what,but in the end we are all artist who are on this thing because of our fasination with mr. vigil artwork!thats it!enjoy the art,dont rip it apart!later Exactly! Except you are still missing the fact that NO ONE RIPEED ANY ARTWORK APART! Holy fuck people, do you understand what I am saying?? It would be one thing if I or someone else came on here and said "The problem with Tim's art in general is he does *THIS* poorly..." or "Tim or does not do *THAT* well...and therefore his artwork is only average at best." or some such nonsense. NO ONE did this! We ALL seem to agree that Tim has been guilty of some inconsistency when working for major publishers with tight deadlines(and sometimes saddled with inkers whose style does not suit his pencils) but for some reason my saying this in regards to a couple Image books he did(and this only because he set the bar so high himself with his work on Faust and Gothic Nights and such) has one guy ripping me and you drawing bizarre conclusions about what I have said. If anything, pointing out when a favorite artist has done soemthing sub-par HELPS keep that artist on his toes! Can you even imagine how sorry comic book art would look right now if every artist was praised for any old crap he spit out as if it were a masterpiece?! Why would Sam Keith bother spending all those hours laboring over his pencils if he got the same praise and money with some crappy scribbles he did or some such? And NO, I did NOT say or even think that Tim has ever done "crappy scribbles" and sold it to us as great art so if you were about to hit "reply" and say otherwise, let me stop you. Again, don't read INTO what people say. Tim is my favorite artist and has been since 1986. And I have a LOT of great artists I admire, from Sienkiewicz to Zeck to Wrightson.
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Post by bastard on Feb 21, 2010 21:05:56 GMT -5
vigil, frazetta, wrightson, bisley, garres, early hotz, beck. out of all of those, no one captures passion, violence, sexuality, evil and action like tim vigil. just my humble opinion.
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